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 Post subject: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:01 am 
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Nazgul
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Just a couple of quick reposts to kick this thread off, just pasted straight from elsewhere :
Just popping out to the letter box so not time for a full reply atm will post a proper reply later.

It feels different to D2 yet at the same time it still feels like a Diablo game.
Still very much an action RPG. Seems to be more of an emphasis on dodging and stuff like that to stay alive which I definitely approve of.

My biggest gripe is the way they've changed the skill system. I mean, it works quite well I think. You choose skills that you want active, up to 6 at once I think once all unlocked. However there is nowhere that you put any kind of skill or stat points when you level. Which means that a character of a certain class is in no way unique other than equipment, you can't fuck up your character by putting things in the wrong place.
There won't be an entire tree of skills you can't use because you didn't go for those ones.
You'll always be able to switch to something else, you are in no way locked in with your choices at all.
If I'm perfectly honest that is pretty much my only gripe with the game at the moment.

Basically other than that fact, it feels exactly like the sequel to D2 should feel.
I'll like a proper post later if you want, anything specific you were wondering about?

Story seems alright, probably on a par with D2 but it doesn't seem as good I think due to the fact that D2 is now a classic. I mean it doesn't feel bad just not way up there.
Only on Act 2 so far so only had one inter-Act cutscene and it was pretty good. Action packed, looked pretty good and got across what it needed to.

No Horadric cube this time :( The blacksmith in town though can make items for you from items you get by salvaging magical items you find. Think there's going to be a couple other artisans once you get further in.
There's a Wirt's Cowbell for sale from a vendor and rumours of another hidden cow level floating about the net at the moment. Shall have to wait and see if there actually is one or not.

So far at least, I would recommend it for a purchase if you were a fan of the first or second.

Basically the only thing against it is the skill system and the lack of allocatable stat points each level. That's the one thing that's missing as far as I can see but then some people will love that because it lets you try loads of different builds with the one character. I don't agree with those people in the slightest.
There's now no point in levelling two of the same class (like a WereBear and a WereWolf with 2 druids in the expansion (LoD)) since you can just change between skills so there would be no point.
I am looking forward to trying to complete it on hardcore mode though, think I'm gonna wait till I've completed my first playthrough before trying that though (unlock hardcore at lvl10 rather than on completion of normal difficulty).

Only other gripe would be the fact that you need to connect to play. Even if you just want to play singleplayer you have to login to the servers to play, which isn't so much of an issue now that it isn't launch day and it's actually easy enough to get logged in.
The plus to this is that it's really easy to join in with a friend who is playing.
I however think making you login online to play by yourself is fucking retarded, I can only assume it was a piracy measure. If I'd known about it before hand I might not have bought the game, I've completely ignored games I really wanted to play before because they had stupid DRM on them. Spore for example, I always wanted a shot of that but refused to buy it because of the DRM.
All Ubisoft games were boycotted (by me) for a while as well for the same reason. Only chance we have of getting them to stop it is to vote with our wallets. Spore I will never buy but will happily pirate whereas usually if I do pirate a game that ends up being good, I will pay for it at some point.
Not if they have some stupid measure to stop piracy that only hurts the legitimate paying customer (like all DRM).

Anyway, off to the postbox now.

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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:02 am 
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Nazgul
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Oh yeh, as far as I know there's yet to be any form of DRM that has resulted in there being no pirated version. A game I want I am more than happy to buy in order to support the games company. I'll admit primarily because the best way to ensure that games like the ones you like continue to be made is to make sure that they make money from those games. Hence I am happy to pay for games I want to see being made (or that I would have wanted to see being made in the past before that game gets made, if you see what I mean) and I know that my money doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things but it's one of those things where if everyone thought that way....

I've just realised that I'm replying to your post in reverse order. I just replied to the DRM bit first and then my next paragraph, before I decided to write this one, was about to address the line you'd written about the cube. OK, so reverse-reply it is. GO!

Yeh, I liked the cube as well. I thought it was an excellent feature in D2, the changing of gems into the next gem up and the discovering of recipes through trial and error. Along with looking up recipes on the internet :D Then the expansion added the runes, with the runeword items which were fucking awesome some of them. And you could of course turn 3xRune A into 1xRune B where Rune B was the rune that was one level of rarity above Rune A.
Making Rejuv potions from health and mana potions. Full rejuv potions from the same + a gem (was it a gem? I feel like it was but I can't honestly remember for sure. I know a normal rejuv was 3 health and 3 mana potions. I still remember the patch where they made mana potions purchasable from the vendors. it was quite a late patch (around the time of the expansion's release I think) and it was so much easier being able to just buy mana potions whereas before you could only get them from drops.
So yeh, I'm pretty gutted the cube is gone. I loved the cube tbh.

I think, from the small bits I've read on a Diablo fansite (one of the staff members is someone whose personal website I have read regularly for.... must be about 10 years now. He was involved in a D2 site I'd read a lot but I actually found his personal site completely independantly of that and only found out it was the same guy one day when he mentioned it on the personal site) I think a lot of the cube's function has been taken over by the artisans like the blacksmith who can make items for you. I saw some talk of finding recipes (inspiration from WoW?) that the artisans can then use to make stuff for you if you have the right items to make it from.
Whether it is actually similar, I don't know. But I know there is a jeweler artisan at some point in the game so I'm guessing (hoping?) that they will be able to upgrade gems. Can't see why they wouldn't put that in at some point.

With the artisans they start with a small number of things they can make and you pay gold to level them up. Started off at 2k a time, then 4k and it's currently at 6k for me with the blacksmith just reached Artisan Level 3. There are maybe 10 (could well be more, didnt count at all) "level ups" within each level, each of which provided anywhere from 1 to 5 new things that they could make.
Apparently the level of the artisans is based on your account rather than your character so gold is going to be really plentiful on characters that aren't your first since you will be saving shitloads of gold not levelling up the artisans. This I think is a mistake, they should definitely have made this based on the character. I don't see any reason for it not to be and it's just going to make later characters that little bit easier that you don't really want. Especially since I'm currently assuming that it's the same as D2 and difficulties are character based so that you can't start a new character on nightmare, you have to play them through normal first. I'm certainly hoping that's the case. If not, they'd have to give you a character that started at a higher level or something, which I guess could actually work this time round since there's no skill points. I hope they've not done that though personally.

As for getting the things that the artisans need to make stuff for you, I can only speak with regards to the blacksmith artisan since that's the only one I've seen so far. When you talk to the blacksmith(BS from now on if I need to type it again) one of the options on the interface is Salvage. If you choose this tab, you can drag any magical item you have onto the salvage icon and it is destroyed giving you either a blue material item or a blue and also a yellow material item. There is one kind of the blue one and one kind of the yellow one. Items (at least at the BS) then (so far) cost a certain number of the blue material and (possibly) a certain number of the yellow material (colours are rarity not actual colour btw, like previous game did it. Though I've not seen any set items yet I'm assuming you get them) plus a fee in gold to make it.
From what I've read some of the BS' items later on will need other materials as well but that's how it works so far. So it's been a balancing between salvaging them to get materials and selling them to get gold. Obviously sell all the plain non-magical items but the magical ones (especially the rare ones) are worth so much more gold :D

Ideally I would have liked to see this new system in addition to the cube. I think that would have been excellent.

Yeh, the lack of stat/skill distribution is something that bothers me. In fact if I'm perfectly honest (other than the having to be onling thing but that's not a problem with the game per se) it's the only thing about the game that bothers me really. Sure it avoid having a character that literally couldn't get past certain points in the game but I don't think that's something that should be avoided. I think it's good that D2 had that (pure ice sorceress at some point in Act 2 (I think) where everything in Hell difficulty was cold immune (not resistant, 100% immune). I had to go back a bit and level for a while putting points into some lightning spells) kind of thing. Sure it was annoying but I am all in favour of it being kept in.

I just think that it should be possible to fuck up a character. That's part of the fun. Or trying ridiculous builds. If you wanted a barbarian with stupidly high potion throwing skill you had to forego a whole load of other skills. Now if you want a stupid skill build you level with a sensible one then change. Of course you don't have to, but that's what everyone will assume you've done.
It was a way of making characters unique. It was a big RPGesque part of the game. Choosing your stats gave you an extra choice as well, knowing which ones you could skimp on, getting eq that you were lacking massively in a stat because you hadn't needed it for that character, the satisfaction of getting your next skill point into that skill.
I absolutely loved the way that you could take 2 skill trees (usually) but noone ever really went for 3 because it meant you were hindered in all of them. Apart from the sorceress where I took max warmth from fire, some static field, energy shield, teleport from lightning, and then a shitload of cold spells but that was mainly cold, a few lightning and one fire. So it was still really a 2 tree build, primarily massively focused on a single tree.
It meant you could then level another 2 sorceresses, one focusing mainly on each of the other 2 trees. In that respect I think that D3 is going to lack the same everlasting replay value that D2 had.

Then of course there is the lack of uniqueness of your character since there are no permanent skills to choose, no stat points to put on. Your character other than equipment is going to be just the same as everyone else who is playing that class.

If you're interested in how the skill system works I will post a brief explanation in another post. I will probably do it anyway to be honest but I'm off to play D3 for a bit for now :D

Very brief :
All buttons can be changed to be any skill from any tree (if you choose the option to allow any tree on any button from the gameplay options)

2 mouse buttons; one skill per button just like D2. By default; LMB = a skill from the "Primary" tree, RMB = a skill from the "Secondary tree"
Number buttons, 1-4; one active skill per button. There are 3 or 4 (4 I think) different active skill trees (at least with the class I went). By default each number button is a skill from a different tree, possibly with one tree having 2 buttons I cant remember. You start off with only one of these trees (and one skill in that tree) unlocked and then as you level you unlock not only another tree but also the next button to assign a skill to until eventually you have an action bar with 4 skills on it accessed by clicking or pressing 1-4.
Passive skills; up to 3 (I think) active at any one time. Your first one is unlocked around level 12 I think it was and you can have one active with a choice of 3 or so. As you level you unlock more skills (they're all just in a single tree) and also at some levels the ability to have additional passive skills active at the same time.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Each skill can also have a rune attached to it which alters the skill. Only one rune at a time can be active and you unlock additional ones as you level. There are about 7 I think for each skill (except passive skills) and they do all sorts of things like double the damage, add stun to the attack, add lifesteal, increased blast radius (I'm loving the exploding bolas with increased blast radius as my primary LMB skill :D) and that's pretty much it.

The saving grace for it it the number of options that are available thanks to you having a total of 6 skill slots (4 keyboard plus the 2 mouse) with a total of 6 (I think) skill trees, 7 (ish I think) skills per skill tree and then 7 (or thereabouts) runes for each skill.
Makes for a fair bit of choice, different strategies for different enemies/areas/numbers of enemies/bosses/etc. I have to say it does actually work fairly well.
In that respect though it does feel very different to D2 though I have to say (yet again :D) that once you get over it not being the same as D2 I have to admit that it does seem like quite an enjoyable system. The problems are mainly the ones I've already covered in this MASSIVE reply.

One thing that I think they may have improved on thanks to their experience from WoW is to do with the enemies. The thing I read on the fansite was saying that the difficulty steps way up in Act 2 and beyond and if you offer a stationary target for any length of time you will be dead. It's not quite got that hard for me (or us, been playing with a friend) yet but it's definitely got a lot harder in Act 2 so far. In a very good way though, actually have to play well, use your skills to their advantage, work together if there's 2 of you (175% health for the monsters) and so on which is excellent. It feels more like you're actually surviving through tactics and skill more often than D2 did I think.
Anyway, the thing I think they've learned from WoW is with monsters that have some kind of attack that you really need to dodge or you're going to be dead or certainly rapidly approaching it. The visual cues to tell you that an attack is coming along with the timings to make dodging it possible but by no means easy or a foregone conclusion if you aren't paying attention are done really well. I never remember them being that good in D2, certainly with 2 of the bosses the friend I was playing with died (you can't revive while a boss is being fought now) and I then managed to dodge pretty much every single attack to kill the boss without dying ::)
Really satisfying :)

Haha, yeh I know I said that first reply was just gonna be a quick one but it ended up being slightly longer than I anticipated. This one however may well justify my calling of the first one brief :D

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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:26 am 
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Nazgul
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Er, are you replying to yourself here? looks a bit like you've gone mad.. Very informative though!! Shame about the skill tree though, I reckon if something works just leave it be!! As for having different classes, that just gave the games a bigger lifespan, letting you play through as a different characdter with different attributes. Suppose its sort of good being able to combine the lot though. I'm guessing that, as with all the other diablo's, this is a PC only game?


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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Nazgul
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Pedro wrote:
Er, are you replying to yourself here? looks a bit like you've gone mad.. Very informative though!! Shame about the skill tree though, I reckon if something works just leave it be!! As for having different classes, that just gave the games a bigger lifespan, letting you play through as a different characdter with different attributes. Suppose its sort of good being able to combine the lot though. I'm guessing that, as with all the other diablo's, this is a PC only game?


I've got no idea if it's PC only actually, I think so though but I'm not sure. Haven't seen anything about it being for anywhere else, don't know if Blizzard have made a console game at all actually ever.

Lol, the posts were taken from another forum where I had posted them in reply to someone but I was just posting them here so that Duncan could have a look (and anyone else that could be bothered to read through that huge amount of text :D) and see what he thought about it as well.

All 3 Diablo games have had different classes, I'm confused as to what you're confused about there but I'm sure there must be some confusion from what you've said :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Ahh, well as you say, it is a lot of text, and I skimmed through it. thought you'd said there wasn't really a class thing anymore (bit like skyrim). Just me being a dumbass!! How far through it are you?


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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Actually, you say the the character class's aren't unique to themselves, asides from equipment. I think that's what I was picking up on.


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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:39 pm 
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